Home Forums Everything about the Mini Tricopter I'm a sell out… sorry, the Tricopter made do it.

This topic contains 18 replies, has 8 voices, and was last updated by  punong_bisyonaryo 2 years, 8 months ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 19 total)
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  • #33696

    Marlon
    Participant

    I’m giving up on this! I’m buying a DJI Mavic Pro, it has every thing I need but in a Quad. Hate to say this but the Mini Tricopter is a, if not one of the greatest designs out there… but it lacks software. And there is where DJI take over! They have the best software out there. When I talked on this forum about GPS SONAR and AUTO HOVER. Some my questions till this day remained unanswered (again being discriminated, selectively choosing who to talk to or answer) and has nothing to with color so don’t get you panties in a bunch. Instead of coming together and do these we could have the best Tricoper EVER! I have shelved my Tricopter for now. Without proper software these are to scary to fly and constantly crashing them turns them into a slow dugg’d money pit. Doomed with setup failures, flying failure etc. My advice to David step into the DJI offices and make some money with your design and have your signature on it. The DJI Mini Tri by David. Eventually I will order my F3FC board just to have my shelf queen dormant and not sick.

    #33704

    GAntonjo
    Moderator

    Hi, @marlon. I agree with you, the DJI Mavic looks great and the tests I have seen give big thumbs up for a “flying tripod”, it that is what we are looking for. If we are into this game to learn, build and race, the DJI Mavic don’t stand up for the RCExplorer Tricopters, or any xxxFlight based multicopter.

    I am not a skilled pilot in any field, and of course I would like to have a decent RTH and position hold to help me when I f… up, but I would not like to give away the agility of the tricopters. So, I do study the possible sensors to add to my frames, and yes, you are right. The Acro based flight controllers are not very suited for such advanced functions you talk about. DigitalEntity and his team over at GitHub is doing a decent job in trying to address this. So, there sure is going on things in the open source world that might make this possible, if only we could find a good way to make all sensors fit any type of frame and let the software figure out how to tune the sensors at the different frames.

    Where will I put my money? Well, I have built the V2, upgraded it to V3 and now sort of V4 (with and external SPRacing F3 Clone) and I have build a Mini, still not to the price of the DJI Mavic. For me this has been a good choice, as I have learnt a lot on how things work. If I just wanted to take photos/videos from the air, I would (probably) have gone for the DJIs. For learning to fly, I got some Eachine H8 Mini quads that I reflashed with Acro firmware and hooked them up to my Taranis. These small “wasps” have taken some 8 hours total beating, and have given me skills I never would have got by “letting the DJI fly for me”. Like the choice between a Volvo or a Porsche, there are different uses of them all.

    That said, maybe I will add a Mavic to my collection, just that I don’t think it will be the (only) one I take on a ride when I want to have fun, if you know what I mean.

    #33709

    I have to disagree with you, Marlon. Each product has its own place in the market and comparing something like the Mini Tricopter to the Mavic Pro is pointless as they are completely different animals. No one ever said that the Mini Tricopter is easy to fly. It is designed to be a fast and aggressive flying multirotor. The Mavic Pro is designed for someone who wants a flying camera, or as some people put it, a tripod in the sky. DJI never billed it as an FPV racer or freestyle machine. Which one you choose to fly is a choice you’ll make depending on what you want. But complaining that David’s products are inferior because the don’t have some of the features that the DJI quads have is silly — David designed many fantastic aircraft that serve a certain purpose and fit a certain market. DJI aircraft are for a totally different crowd. Comparing the two is pointless because they aren’t “competitors” on the market, so to speak. As the folks at ImmersionRC like to put it, if a DJI Mavic/Phantom is a white fluffy poodle, then a racing multicopter like David’s is a pitbull, bred to be aggressive and fierce.

    I’m sorry to hear that the Mini Tri isn’t woking for you. It can be so much fun! If you have ANY questions, please ask them, I’d be happy to help.

    🙂

    #33727

    Marlon
    Participant

    Thanks for you reply guys, remember I’m not mad at the product or hobby. I just wanted the software to lean more towards saving our investment a bit. And DJI does that. I have seen friends owners of octa and hexa SYNDRONES walk away from these. And get DJI Phantoms, when I asked why? Cause I felt left alone in art of hobbying and building your own creation. I was told… reliability and software. Don’t get me wrong I LOVE my Mini Tricopter. But Hate it’s software and limitations. Flew it 2 times, crashed once hard landed on the second time. Got the F3FC… while setting up a already working MinimOSD micro. A puff of white smoke went up and gone was the beeper and UART power outputs. Got my GPS working when most people said it wouldn’t work or that Tricopters and GPS don’t mix. Well I still have grand new SONARS. Every thing else works but with no beeper and UART power. I have to use a external BEC. I’ll post a question about the sonar on the F3FC see who can help. David pick up your phone DJI is calling.

    #33735

    DaveL
    Participant

    Hey Marlon, check out the behind-the-scenes work going on, there’s a small army of coders building the software we want.

    The CleanFlight team is working on new stuff for v1.14 and beyond.
    The tricopter tuner-meisters at TriFlight are making specialized tuning that will get rolled back into Cleanflight.
    There’s iNavFlight working on gps, rth and altitude hold. <<I need!
    And the mad scientists at BetaFlight testing out all kinds of innovations!

    For each of these projects, click on the “issues” and “pull requests” tabs where you can read about the stuff they’re fixing or new features they’re building, it’s just awesome.

    #33755

    Marlon
    Participant

    Hi @davel,

    I appreciate all the hard work going in to Clean fight. But again there is no proprietary firmware for the F3FC. Coders, backers, @david, tuners read this… floating has to be a natural part of the flying nature of the Tricopter. If we start from there… everything else will flow into greatness. Modes have to be extended (Pro disabling AUTOFLOAT and Normal maintaining AUTOFLOAT GPS SOANR) The use of the throttle has to be re-thinked (and not adjusted in TX) Cutting the throttle no longer will the Tri fall out of the sky! This is an AIRCRAFT it’s nature HAS to be to stay in the air. Don’t only contradict me here, by just starting with AUTOFLOAT your lives and mine will be a lot merrier while flying the Tri. As @GAntonio stated the DJI MAVIC PRO will a part of my mew love for the hobby. @Lauka I’d like to see you work on AUTOFLOAT, lets start keeping this beast in the air.

    #33812

    Siclair
    Participant

    Comparing apples and oranges. The Mavic is nothing like the Tricopter. The Mavic is for 99% of its buyers a floating camera which addresses very different needs compared to Davids tricopters. If you don’t know your electronics, white smoke will kill any enthusiasm. The Mavic is a drone which doesn’t require any pilot skills. The tricopter is just a tricopter and needs a pilot. Apperently you wanted something the tricopter could never deliver.

    Me personally I never want to see any GPS or sonar on the tricopter. There’s like a hundred RTF for that. Mavic being one of them.

    #33813

    Marlon
    Participant

    Thank you,

    That’s you opinion! And like everyone you are also entitled to have one. I talked about reliability, I did not compare them. OUR Tricoper does not have a proprietary firmware. And no I’m not a pilot, I’m a truck driver (1/14 scale). That doesn’t exclude me to have what I want. I you ever had a SYNDRONES, you know what they cost. But for me to see pilots better than me and you. Walk away from them with their expensive DSLR cameras and all. There must be something me and you don’t know. And by the way I have successfully hooked up GPS on my F3FC, thanks to many on the forum for their help. About the white smoke, again ask me first how it happened, and don’t assume I can’t fly, solder or… I don’t no what else you think I can’t do.

    Now you are better in you electronics than me, please help me with my OSD question I had earlier. My Tricopter has everything I wanted it to deliver. GPS less wires and now SONAR may be with your help. You inspired me compare strawberries and pumpkins now.

    NOW I’M MAD!

    Attachments:
    #33822

    GAntonjo
    Moderator

    @marlon: There is a saying – don’t write a letter/e-mail/what ever when you are angry and send it right away. It looks like you were angry when you wrote the above message, because I have difficulties understanding all your points. You are right, the tricopter does not have proprietary firmware, though it is special made open source made specifically for the “proprietary” RCExplorer flight controllers. In that I mean the flight controllers David has created are special made STM32Fx processors like in the CleanFlight supported flight controllers. He did however remove some of the flexibility a standalone flight controller gives by compromising circuit layout with what he saw as absolute necessary in “his” tricopters. We as users of his flight controllers may learn live with those limitations or find other solutions that suits our projects better. Bringing in the Syndrones and DSLR cameras into this discussion is way of from what the RCExplorer Tricopters ever will be aimed at.

    Look at the history of the RCExplorer Tricopters and you will see that it has never been a fail safe multicopter, and it has never been marketed as such one. It has been marketed as a unique, pretty simple to build and pretty cheap multicopter. My first build (a V1.5’ish with APM2 clone) took me 1 week to build and was my very first RC airframe ever. And, it flew perfectly at the first field test. Ok, that one did have fully functioning GPS and Compass, but I soon learned that badly configured compass indeed will make the drone crash. Anyway, back then I saw that the KK flight controller never would give me GPS and compass assisted flight modes, which was why I went for the APM2 clone. Later I moved my electronics from the wooden frame to the V3 carbon and G10 frame from RCExplorer, and it still flew nicely (managed to fry one APM2 due to wrong polarization) with the APM2 and DT780 motors. I even tested adding a 2-axis gimbal to my V3, but my first tries made it way to nose heavy. Then I bought the MiniTri with the NAZE32 frame and it is now upgraded to the F3FC. Never had any problems making that fly, even if I did not have GPS and compass on it. Taking it slowly I managed to learn how to fly my V3 and Mini without GPS modes. Yes, it takes time to learn without crashing too much, but I believe it is worth it in the long run. If you don’t know how to fly it in manual modes (possibly with auto leveling enabled) you will be in deep sh.. the day your GPS signal fails or the compass goes crazy. There are numerous news articles related to DJI’s crashing due to pilots not knowing how to recover from GPS/Compass errors. I personally have become a better drone pilot BECAUSE the RCExplorer Tricopters don’t have GPS assisted mode that work.

    That said, I too like to tinker with things, so now I have ditched the APM2 and replaced that with an SPRacing F3 clone on my V3. That is, I upgraded motors and ESCs to the V4 electronics pack, so my V3 is now a V4 except from the fact that I use a standalone FC. This FC has all the UARTs, SoftSerials and I2C pins needed to be able to add GPS, Compass, Sonar and so on, but there are problems also in that FC. For instance, my FC has a built in Compass of the exact same as my external GPX+Compass. This is not a good combination, because the firware is not able to decide which of these 2 compasses to use. Furthermore, the iNavFlight Firmware that is based on CleanFlight does not have the wonderful TriCopter specific changes that @lkaino has made in TriFlight. So far I have not had a single successful flight with my V4 when using iNavFlight. With TriFlight it is doing exatly what I order it to, iNavFlight just scares me for the moment.

    Bottom line – the RCExplorer tricopters do work if configured as David designed them, but if anyone wants them to do things “outside the specs”, it is fully up to each and everyone of us to figure out how to solve that. Something as “simple” as adding a cheap MinimOSD from China may fail, not due to the RCExplorer Flight Controllers, but due to quality of the OSD or the Firmware loaded to that OSD. That is not necessarily David’s fault.

    #33835

    Marlon
    Participant

    @GAntonjo thanks for your reply,

    Again @david your Tricopter design is the BEST out there I LOVE it and LOVE the F3FC even more. But I hate the limitations in it’s software. I didn’t ask for hand gesture recognition, or RTH. If you remember long time ago, I asked for GPS (got it) in order for it to stay in one place when I wanted. Back then (Mini TRI V3) @david told me to wait cause the next board would have GPS capabilities, and it does. I ordered as soon as it was available, refreshing the page in order to be the FIRST. I have F3FC 000001 to say (joke) My problem with the Tricopter is staying in the air when the throttle is cut. Forget the sonar I spent all day yesterday trying everything even got some damage reversed. But in the end like @Lauka stated it’s just not implemented. Lets remember, The F3FC is a new board that is based on the SP Racing… BUT our board has connections that aren’t present on the SP Racing or vice versa. Making it very hard for a guy like me who likes to experiment. Cause when ever I have need to lookup something I have to look it up in a SP Racing tutorial… and then o our boards don’t have these connections etc. My F3FC made a puff of smoke while configuring the OSD. Didn’t even complain cause I taught what did I do now? But my connections are in order and CLEAN. Wasn’t even touching the Tri. I’ll just order a new board. And every time I order ill throw in some spare parts. I know the nature of the crashing in this hobby even I wrote about it. But a pilot job is to take off, take the plane to it’s destination and land. Staying in the air is due to physics of the aircraft and software. About cheap china OSD’s I even have a BROSD also. I have done my homework on these, I can order a $250 Eagle OSD right now. But to put in what? I rather spend that money in a new F3FC board with some parts. And have you guy’s help me with SONAR and keeping my beast in the air even after throttle is fully cut. About SYNDRONES I know the are used for a whole other purpose. I have a friend that has 3 for his areal photography business. There are even SYSNDRONES whit RED ONE cameras flying in Holland. My SYNDRONES friend is flying DJI phantoms most of the time now. Cause of that he can just take it out of the box and fly. And not thinker with arming and sometimes not wanting to arm issues etc. When I told him I have a Tricoper he said FINALY. Cause I said I was never getting a QUAD Copter. Then he asked me what brand, I told him it’s a kit. He said I knew it you like build your own stuff. And then he asked where is it from… I said from Sweden, some guy named David. He said woooooo he’s the GOD of Tricopters, I was happy and taught YESSSS I have the good stuff! Me bringing the SYNDRONES into the discussion was due to amazement how hobbyist that build their own creations that cost the more money that mine. Are simply getting a RTF and not even looking back. Well I love my Tricopter LOVE this community, cause I have been into the RC Helicopter hobby and believe me they are not EVEN as helpful as you guys.

    I simply want the Tricopter to stay in the air when the throttle cut. (DUMMY MODE)

    @siclair I’m sorry I lashed out at you yesterday. I had a hard day trying to make the sonar to even register a pulse. Lets eat those fruit instead of comparing them hahahaha.

    I’m still getting my Mavic PRO as soon as the hurricane goes away!!!!!! I will have two foldables, a Tri and a QUAD. When I’m done flying I can simply wave at Mavic and it will return, the Tri… I guess I can cut the throttle and see what happens. Bad joke bad joke hahahahha.

    #33841

    GAntonjo
    Moderator

    Ahhh… There you said the “magic words” for what you really are looking at:-D

    You want it to say in the air when you cut throttle, kind of automatically enter “ALT HOLD + POS HOLD” sort of when you panic and kill throttle?

    Well, this is a two edged sword. What should happen when you kill throttle during a loop or roll? Or when you DO want it to fall out of the sky due to a dangerous situation?

    Depending on which transmitter you have, you could program a switch to enable “DUMMY MODE”. In the Taranis this could be done by creating a logical switch that is triggered by throttle below say 10%. Then the logical switch would trigger change of mode on the assigned aux channel so that HORIZON, ALT_HOLD and POS_HOLD mode is set and also the throttle channel is raised to a safe “stay in the air” or “descend slowly” level. This logical switch could be enabled only when the physical switch you assign the DUMMY MODE is enabled.

    Knowing how the POS HOLD and ALT HOLD works in TriFlight, I would be extremely careful in trying such a solution. Worse things that a drop to the ground may happen, suddenly you have created a “DJI Fly Away” mode :-p

    #33847

    Marlon
    Participant

    @GAntonjo you are funny “DJI Fly away” mode hahahaha I actually heard of those too.

    I have a Futaba 8J, one thing I know our transmitters don’t have a middle throttle position like the RTF’s we use the whole throttle curve. Well you can use two rubber bands or adjust the throttle curve in your transmitter. Can’t we do something smarter in the software? Let’s say you arm the copter, blades start spinning but as soon as you move the stick. Throttle goes up to middle (stick position). And when you want to land you just pull the throttle twice down in order to delete the middle throttle position and use the whole curve again. I know it can be done! Lets see if @lauka can help us (me) with this one. Better yet make a MarlonF3FCfloat.hex hahaha.

    Attachments:
    #33852

    DaveL
    Participant

    Hey Marlon, what about setting a higher minimum-throttle, not high enough to maintain hover or prevent descent, but enough to have it behave itself on throttle cut ? It will take some trial and error to see if it works, but you could get EZ-GUI on your phone and tweak it on the flying field.

    #33856

    Marlon
    Participant

    Yes thanks Dave I’ll do that.

    You know the Failsafe tab menu, it would be nice to have a tab like that for landing an hovering. And as always, make it an option. Those who don’t want it… they don’t enable it. For those who think the Tricoper is good as it is… you only need charged batteries. The rest of us will try to get it to our liking. I’m downloading EZ-GUI as I’m writing now. Just have to get a male to male micro to mini USB cable now.

    #33864

    DaveL
    Participant

    Just in case – you need an OTG cable to make it work, plus the male-mini to male usb-A that you already have.
    No offense intended if you already know this 🙂

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