Home Forums Everything about the Tricopter V4 Throttle/motor behavior on RC Explorer, Naze32R6 & Triflight

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  • #34701
    DominicG
    Participant

    OK, I got this RC Explorer Tricopter V2 or V3 that had the following components

    KK mini FC
    28-26S 1200KV Motor
    8045 Props
    HK 20A UBEC ESCs
    OrangeRx
    Old style tilt Mechanism with analog servo

    Note: I am planning on changing the existing Tilt Mech/Servo out to a RC Explorer tilt mech and Turnigy 210DMH Digital servo real soon. The parts are just sitting and waiting for me to install them. But I wanted to get this issue fixed first

    I needed the KK mini for something else and decided to try a Naze32 R6 on this. I flashed the Naze 32 R6 with the lasted version of Cleanflight/TriFlight (0.5) and then followed the the instructions in David’s awesome Triflight video to set it up

    I calibrated the Accelerometer, and calibrated the ESCs/Motors. Throttle end points were found and set. I also adjusted the subtrims, and endpoints. Everything was operating perfectly in the configurator.

    But when I install the props and bring it outside to hover, it’s almost impossible to maintain it. It’s like the throttle has two speeds. Stop and Full with nothing in between. If you go to adjust the throttle up the tricopter shoots up. If you move the throttle down it just dies and falls from the sky. I imagine its something to do with the subtrims and end points. But I followed the steps outlined in David’s video and it seemed like the configurator was showing it as operating correctly.

    I’m not sure what to do next. Can I get a little help here?

    #34703
    lauka
    Participant

    Can you attach a CLI dump here?

    #34709
    DominicG
    Participant

    I thought I had a copy with me but I don’t. I will try to do so tonight

    #34715
    DominicG
    Participant

    OK, here is the CLI Dump

    # version
    # TriFlight 0.5/NAZE 1.13.0 Jul 24 2016 / 11:57:49 (400e598)
    # dump master

    # mixer
    mixer TRI
    mmix reset
    smix reset

    # feature
    feature -RX_PPM
    feature -VBAT
    feature -INFLIGHT_ACC_CAL
    feature -RX_SERIAL
    feature -MOTOR_STOP
    feature -SERVO_TILT
    feature -SOFTSERIAL
    feature -GPS
    feature -FAILSAFE
    feature -SONAR
    feature -TELEMETRY
    feature -CURRENT_METER
    feature -3D
    feature -RX_PARALLEL_PWM
    feature -RX_MSP
    feature -RSSI_ADC
    feature -LED_STRIP
    feature -DISPLAY
    feature -ONESHOT125
    feature -BLACKBOX
    feature -CHANNEL_FORWARDING
    feature -TRANSPONDER
    feature VBAT
    feature MOTOR_STOP
    feature FAILSAFE
    feature RX_PARALLEL_PWM
    feature BLACKBOX

    # map
    map AETR1234

    # serial
    serial 0 1 115200 57600 0 115200
    serial 1 0 115200 57600 0 115200

    # led
    led 0 15,15:ES:IA:0
    led 1 15,8:E:WF:0
    led 2 15,7:E:WF:0
    led 3 15,0:NE:IA:0
    led 4 8,0:N:F:0
    led 5 7,0:N:F:0
    led 6 0,0:NW:IA:0
    led 7 0,7:W:WF:0
    led 8 0,8:W:WF:0
    led 9 0,15:SW:IA:0
    led 10 7,15:S:WF:0
    led 11 8,15:S:WF:0
    led 12 7,7:U:WF:0
    led 13 8,7:U:WF:0
    led 14 7,8:D:WF:0
    led 15 8,8:D:WF:0
    led 16 8,9::R:3
    led 17 9,10::R:3
    led 18 10,11::R:3
    led 19 10,12::R:3
    led 20 9,13::R:3
    led 21 8,14::R:3
    led 22 7,14::R:3
    led 23 6,13::R:3
    led 24 5,12::R:3
    led 25 5,11::R:3
    led 26 6,10::R:3
    led 27 7,9::R:3
    led 28 0,0:::0
    led 29 0,0:::0
    led 30 0,0:::0
    led 31 0,0:::0

    # color
    color 0 0,0,0
    color 1 0,255,255
    color 2 0,0,255
    color 3 30,0,255
    color 4 60,0,255
    color 5 90,0,255
    color 6 120,0,255
    color 7 150,0,255
    color 8 180,0,255
    color 9 210,0,255
    color 10 240,0,255
    color 11 270,0,255
    color 12 300,0,255
    color 13 330,0,255
    color 14 0,0,0
    color 15 0,0,0

    # mode_color
    mode_color 0 0 1
    mode_color 0 1 11
    mode_color 0 2 2
    mode_color 0 3 13
    mode_color 0 4 10
    mode_color 0 5 3
    mode_color 1 0 5
    mode_color 1 1 11
    mode_color 1 2 3
    mode_color 1 3 13
    mode_color 1 4 10
    mode_color 1 5 3
    mode_color 2 0 10
    mode_color 2 1 11
    mode_color 2 2 4
    mode_color 2 3 13
    mode_color 2 4 10
    mode_color 2 5 3
    mode_color 3 0 8
    mode_color 3 1 11
    mode_color 3 2 4
    mode_color 3 3 13
    mode_color 3 4 10
    mode_color 3 5 3
    mode_color 4 0 7
    mode_color 4 1 11
    mode_color 4 2 3
    mode_color 4 3 13
    mode_color 4 4 10
    mode_color 4 5 3
    mode_color 5 0 9
    mode_color 5 1 11
    mode_color 5 2 2
    mode_color 5 3 13
    mode_color 5 4 10
    mode_color 5 5 3
    mode_color 6 0 6
    mode_color 6 1 10
    mode_color 6 2 1
    mode_color 6 3 0
    mode_color 6 4 0
    mode_color 6 5 2
    mode_color 6 6 3
    mode_color 6 7 6

    set looptime = 1000
    set emf_avoidance = OFF
    set i2c_highspeed = ON
    set gyro_sync = ON
    set gyro_sync_denom = 1
    set mid_rc = 1500
    set min_check = 1100
    set max_check = 1900
    set rssi_channel = 0
    set rssi_scale = 30
    set rssi_ppm_invert = OFF
    set rc_smoothing = OFF
    set rx_min_usec = 885
    set rx_max_usec = 2115
    set serialrx_provider = SPEK1024
    set sbus_inversion = ON
    set spektrum_sat_bind = 0
    set input_filtering_mode = OFF
    set min_throttle = 1311
    set max_throttle = 2000
    set min_command = 1000
    set servo_center_pulse = 1500
    set motor_pwm_rate = 400
    set servo_pwm_rate = 250
    set 3d_deadband_low = 1406
    set 3d_deadband_high = 1514
    set 3d_neutral = 1460
    set retarded_arm = OFF
    set disarm_kill_switch = ON
    set auto_disarm_delay = 5
    set max_arm_angle = 25
    set small_angle = 25
    set fixedwing_althold_dir = 1
    set reboot_character = 82
    set gps_provider = NMEA
    set gps_sbas_mode = AUTO
    set gps_auto_config = ON
    set gps_auto_baud = OFF
    set telemetry_switch = OFF
    set telemetry_inversion = OFF
    set frsky_default_lattitude = 0.000
    set frsky_default_longitude = 0.000
    set frsky_coordinates_format = 0
    set frsky_unit = IMPERIAL
    set frsky_vfas_precision = 0
    set hott_alarm_sound_interval = 5
    set battery_capacity = 0
    set vbat_scale = 110
    set vbat_max_cell_voltage = 43
    set vbat_min_cell_voltage = 33
    set vbat_warning_cell_voltage = 35
    set current_meter_scale = 400
    set current_meter_offset = 0
    set multiwii_current_meter_output = OFF
    set current_meter_type = ADC
    set align_gyro = DEFAULT
    set align_acc = DEFAULT
    set align_mag = DEFAULT
    set align_board_roll = 0
    set align_board_pitch = 0
    set align_board_yaw = 0
    set max_angle_inclination = 500
    set gyro_lpf = 188HZ
    set gyro_soft_lpf = 90
    set moron_threshold = 32
    set imu_dcm_kp = 2500
    set imu_dcm_ki = 0
    set pid_at_min_throttle = ON
    set yaw_motor_direction = 1
    set yaw_jump_prevention_limit = 200
    set tri_unarmed_servo = OFF
    set servo_lowpass_freq = 400.000
    set servo_lowpass_enable = OFF
    set tri_tail_motor_thrustfactor = 138
    set tri_tail_servo_speed = 300
    set tri_servo_feedback = VIRTUAL
    set tri_motor_acc_yaw_correction = 0
    set tri_motor_acceleration = 0.180
    set failsafe_delay = 10
    set failsafe_off_delay = 200
    set failsafe_throttle = 1000
    set failsafe_kill_switch = OFF
    set failsafe_throttle_low_delay = 100
    set failsafe_procedure = 0
    set acc_hardware = 0
    set baro_hardware = 0
    set mag_hardware = 0
    set blackbox_rate_num = 1
    set blackbox_rate_denom = 1
    set blackbox_device = SERIAL
    set magzero_x = 0
    set magzero_y = 0
    set magzero_z = 0

    # rxfail
    rxfail 0 a
    rxfail 1 a
    rxfail 2 a
    rxfail 3 a
    rxfail 4 h
    rxfail 5 h
    rxfail 6 h
    rxfail 7 h
    rxfail 8 h
    rxfail 9 h
    rxfail 10 h
    rxfail 11 h
    rxfail 12 h
    rxfail 13 h
    rxfail 14 h
    rxfail 15 h
    rxfail 16 h
    rxfail 17 h

    # dump profile

    # profile
    profile 0

    # aux
    aux 0 1 1 1700 2100
    aux 1 2 1 1300 1700
    aux 2 27 1 900 1300
    aux 3 28 0 900 1300
    aux 4 0 0 900 900
    aux 5 0 0 900 900
    aux 6 0 0 900 900
    aux 7 0 0 900 900
    aux 8 0 0 900 900
    aux 9 0 0 900 900
    aux 10 0 0 900 900
    aux 11 0 0 900 900
    aux 12 0 0 900 900
    aux 13 0 0 900 900
    aux 14 0 0 900 900
    aux 15 0 0 900 900
    aux 16 0 0 900 900
    aux 17 0 0 900 900
    aux 18 0 0 900 900
    aux 19 0 0 900 900

    # adjrange
    adjrange 0 0 0 900 900 0 0
    adjrange 1 0 0 900 900 0 0
    adjrange 2 0 0 900 900 0 0
    adjrange 3 0 0 900 900 0 0
    adjrange 4 0 0 900 900 0 0
    adjrange 5 0 0 900 900 0 0
    adjrange 6 0 0 900 900 0 0
    adjrange 7 0 0 900 900 0 0
    adjrange 8 0 0 900 900 0 0
    adjrange 9 0 0 900 900 0 0
    adjrange 10 0 0 900 900 0 0
    adjrange 11 0 0 900 900 0 0

    # rxrange
    rxrange 0 1000 2000
    rxrange 1 1000 2000
    rxrange 2 1000 2000
    rxrange 3 1000 2000

    # servo
    servo 0 1000 2000 1500 45 45 100 -1
    servo 1 1000 2000 1500 45 45 100 -1
    servo 2 1000 2000 1500 45 45 100 -1
    servo 3 1000 2000 1500 45 45 100 -1
    servo 4 1000 2000 1500 45 45 100 -1
    servo 5 900 1797 1500 40 40 100 -1
    servo 6 1000 2000 1500 45 45 100 -1
    servo 7 1000 2000 1500 45 45 100 -1

    set gps_pos_p = 15
    set gps_pos_i = 0
    set gps_pos_d = 0
    set gps_posr_p = 34
    set gps_posr_i = 14
    set gps_posr_d = 53
    set gps_nav_p = 25
    set gps_nav_i = 33
    set gps_nav_d = 83
    set gps_wp_radius = 200
    set nav_controls_heading = ON
    set nav_speed_min = 100
    set nav_speed_max = 300
    set nav_slew_rate = 30
    set alt_hold_deadband = 40
    set alt_hold_fast_change = ON
    set deadband = 10
    set yaw_deadband = 10
    set yaw_control_direction = 1
    set 3d_deadband_throttle = 50
    set throttle_correction_value = 0
    set throttle_correction_angle = 800
    set default_rate_profile = 0
    set gimbal_mode = NORMAL
    set acc_cut_hz = 15
    set accxy_deadband = 40
    set accz_deadband = 40
    set accz_lpf_cutoff = 5.000
    set acc_unarmedcal = ON
    set acc_trim_pitch = 0
    set acc_trim_roll = 0
    set baro_tab_size = 21
    set baro_noise_lpf = 0.600
    set baro_cf_vel = 0.985
    set baro_cf_alt = 0.965
    set mag_declination = 0
    set pid_controller = MWREWRITE
    set p_pitch = 44
    set i_pitch = 26
    set d_pitch = 25
    set p_roll = 47
    set i_roll = 30
    set d_roll = 25
    set p_yaw = 200
    set i_yaw = 20
    set d_yaw = 33
    set p_alt = 50
    set i_alt = 0
    set d_alt = 0
    set p_level = 20
    set i_level = 10
    set d_level = 100
    set p_vel = 120
    set i_vel = 45
    set d_vel = 1
    set yaw_p_limit = 500
    set dterm_cut_hz = 95
    set gtune_loP_rll = 10
    set gtune_loP_ptch = 10
    set gtune_loP_yw = 10
    set gtune_hiP_rll = 100
    set gtune_hiP_ptch = 100
    set gtune_hiP_yw = 100
    set gtune_pwr = 0
    set gtune_settle_time = 450
    set gtune_average_cycles = 16

    # dump rates

    # rateprofile
    rateprofile 0

    set rc_rate = 100
    set rc_expo = 85
    set rc_yaw_expo = 83
    set thr_mid = 50
    set thr_expo = 0
    set roll_rate = 55
    set pitch_rate = 48
    set yaw_rate = 60
    set tpa_rate = 0
    set tpa_breakpoint = 1500
    set tri_dynamic_yaw_minthrottle = 200
    set tri_dynamic_yaw_maxthrottle = 70

    #34754
    DominicG
    Participant

    In desperation (and partly curiosity) I decided to erase the model on my DX9, reflash the Naze32 r6 with TriFlight (w/full chip erase), and start from scratch.

    I watched David’s video (AGAIN) and made sure that I followed the steps he outlined. I adjusted the SubTrims and Travel (end points) again. I made sure that all the sticks were at 1500 when centered, that the min was 1000 and the max 2000.

    Then I went to the servo config. Now this is the old style mechanism with the servo arm, wire and grub ends. I just used a protractor with the +/- 40 deg line covered in colored tape so I could calibrate it. I lined up the center of the protractor with the pivot of the yaw mech and it seemed to work pretty well.

    HOWEVER, I did not load the PIDs for the V4. I wanted to see how the Tricopter behaved with just the stock PIDs. But during testing I got the same behavior. The throttle is so touchy that it’s uncontrollable

    But while doing this I noticed something. David doesn’t mention (or I may have missed it in the video) anything about establishing the Minimum throttle input. I went to the Motor Tab, enabled the check box, and then increased the throttle until the motor spins up. I found that the minimum throttle setting was 1311.

    Since the stick mid point is 1500 could this be the issue? If so, how do I adjust this?

    #34761
    lauka
    Participant

    That’s unusually high. Can you try to recalibrate the ESCs and see if you can get it lower.

    Then set your min_throttle to the lowest value which spins all the motors effortlessly + 10.

    E.g.
    set min_throttle 1321

    #34768
    DominicG
    Participant

    Ok, I went into clean flight and lowered the Minimum Throttle setting to about 1000 and THEN (re)calibrated the ESCs. The motors now start at 1063 which is a heck of a lot better than 1300.

    HOWEVER,…. that does not stop the tricopter from doing the kangaroo jump when I go to give it some throttle! It pretty much acts the same as before. I give it enough throttle to lift off and it takes off like a rocket. If you try to back off the throttle it drops like a rock.

    What the heck is going on here? It’s not a matter of the electronics. These are the SAME electronics that work very well with a KK 2.1.5 FC. It’s gotta be something in the NAZE32/Cleanflight settings. But I don’t know where to start.

    Edited to add:
    Would one bad ESC cause this kind of problem? I just went to re-re-recalibrate the ESCs and the 3rd motor started misbehaving in the same way that I’ve come to recognize as a misbehaving ESC (stuttering, not rotating).

    These are Hobby King 20A UBEC ESCs. Not the greatest in the world. But they’ve worked well so far.

    Additionally I noticed that when I went to calibrate the ESCs the minimum start value had INCREASED to something like 1350 (and yes, I turned the minimum value back down in the Configure tab before I tried recalibrating). So something weird is up here.

    Either way, I think it’s time for some new ESCs

    #34791
    norwenkel
    Participant

    Just a short advice. You should not have the +-5v of the ESC’s connected to the NAZE32 if the Board allready have a +-5V connection. If not, just use one and not all 3 5V connections.
    Good luck

    Norbert

    #34793
    DominicG
    Participant

    Thanks. Got it. Only one of the ESC need to supply power to the FC. So on the other two motors (carefully) remove the power lead from the connector and heat shrink it so it won’t short out.

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